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Poster: garthus Date: Jul 31, 2009 6:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

Brewster,

I read all of these posts and while your reasons for eliminating ftp may be sound, the use of other plug ins which complicates the share button situation is not. I run basic versions of Debian at home for my workstation and do systems administration work during the day. I ran into a problem when the upload button change occured. Apparently some plugin is either missing or misconfigured and it does not work, I cannot upload from these linux machines.

Basic rule of complex systems is to not further complicate their functions. A simple share button pointing to the relevant uploading page is simple and functional. The current share button only creates potential problems for worldwide users and does not really add to the functionality. I have always designed all of my websites as simply as is possible. I do not use shockwave, flash or any of the "in" plugins because they do not really provide useful added functionality. There is a tendendcy amongst developers to use as many bells and whistles as is possible, reminds me of the playground altercations where "mine is bigger than yours" was popular. KISS was not meant to be a joke but increasing refers to ever more complicated systems which become that way because their creators forget about the end user. Looking nice is not equivalent to running good and optimizing functionality. Why one would take an already well functioning process and further complicate it by making the user go to another page and then decide whether they want to upload or correct existing items is beyond me. The old upload gave the option to change existing items right on the page for changing or adding item information. That is a much more optimal solution that the newer more complicated version which requires additional mouse clicks and page views in order to accomplish the same thing. http and ftp is a minor point compared to taking a well functioning system and screwing it up by trying to make it look better (not work better). Commercial software manufacturers have gone down this road, that is why we see the incessant market in so-called training people to use software. Software which appears to be purposely bloated, so as to make it difficult to use, and thus generate additional revenues for companies through training programs and manuals.

Please do not take a great idea, (the archive) and make it more difficult for volunters to upload information, in the name of making the process look better. Design has two major areas, aesthetics is not as important for open source software, but functionality is. I deal with this stuff everyday, The constant fight between the PR marketing types who constantly blather on about how the sight should look, while ignoring the functionality which is so important to the end user.

Gerry
garthus@lilrc.org

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Poster: tracey pooh Date: Aug 17, 2009 11:41pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

OK, we have reproduced issues with files larger than about 8MB
with linux and our flash-based uploader.

therefore, we are pushing out an agent-based detection for unix/linux to show people how to use the non flash-based uploader variant.

sorry for any inconvenience and for the delay in this fix!
--tracey, archive staff

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Poster: garthus Date: Aug 18, 2009 5:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

Tracey,


I already figured out how to fix the Linux/Unix thing almost immediately after the appearance of the flash button and published it in another forum. By the way problem also exists in Windows based browsers when one runs lightened versions of the browsers. While it is nice to publicize this, no one has yet answered the real question. What is the benefit/purpose of complicating the process by using a proprietary plug-in to to facilitate an upload process. I generally do not use such things, specifically for the reasons which have appeared. However, from a global perspective; using such plug-ins is a bad idea. My family lives in Central Asia and for all practical purposes the interface is almost un-usable over a dial-up connection.

Could the developer who has done this contact me, I am really interested in understanding why this was done. In fact it would be easier to not deal with agent-based detection (which further complicates the process and now creates more potential for instability in the system) and just go back to a button which functions the way a button should; that is ---> 'on-click' ---> go to appropriate page.

Or have two sets of pages:

One for people who are impressed by such things and do not care about wasting their time doing uploads; and another for people who could care less about bells and whistles and more about actually putting things up in the archive in a way which is optimal. In fact I would volunteer to code such a page if given such access; .... basically two gateways:

One simple gateway which is user friendly, and compliant to the needs of people with disabilities and people who would prefer not to waste their precious time while volunteering their services to help the Archive achieve its stated goal.

One gateway along the lines of where we are currently heading; resembling a face-book page on steroids.

Gerry 18 August 2009

Gerard Arthus
Systems Administrator:
Long Island library Resources Council
627‭ ‬N.‭ ‬Sunrise Service Road
Medford,‭ ‬New York
USA‭ ‬11713‭
Office:‭ ‬631-675-1563
Fax:‭ ‬631-675-1573
Home:‭ ‬631-289-7565
Cell:‭ ‬631-335-5250

Professor:
Graduate Computer Science/Engineering Management Program
Long Island University/CW Post Campus
720‭ ‬Northern Boulevard
Brookville,‭ ‬New York
11548-1300

Re:
response to posting on 'etree' by Tracey Pooh as follows;

OK, we have reproduced issues with files larger than about 8MB
with linux and our flash-based uploader.

therefore, we are pushing out an agent-based detection for unix/linux to show people how to use the non flash-based uploader variant.

sorry for any inconvenience and for the delay in this fix!
--tracey, archive staff

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Poster: tracey pooh Date: Aug 18, 2009 11:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

and yes, exactly.
we surveyed youtube, facebook, and google video specifically (and others) when redesigning our upload system.

they all are pretty similar:
very basic metadata (title, descrip, keywords) form
flash or java uploader (or heavy JS with progress meters).

--t

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Poster: garthus Date: Aug 18, 2009 7:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

Tracey,

Bad examples to use, I am not impressed by google, youtube or Facebook, they are to clunky and bloated. It will be a sad day if the archive goes the way of those monsters.

Gerry

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Poster: IndieInvasion Date: Aug 19, 2009 2:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

If it ain't broke, don't fix it! There is no reason that having access to FTP should be phased out! Honestly, would you ever try to upload a 300+MB file inside a web browser? And shouldn't the necessities of all users be taken into consideration when making sweeping changes like completely removing FTP access??? I understand the need to make uploading easier for (non-techie)users but that doesn't negate the need for more technically-minded users to have access to a protocol that allows for larger volume uploads. (and don't tell me the new uploader can handle 8GB files, browsers (particularly w/ flash) aren't going to be able to do that reliably)

If there were an alternative to Archive.org I would be switching right about now!

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Poster: tracey pooh Date: Aug 19, 2009 3:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

there is a way to upload files w/o using the flash.
in fact, for files over 2GB, it automatically shows you how to do that.

it's much more common these days to upload files with HTTP
and we've taken much care to make sure large file uploads work.

--tracey

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Poster: tracey pooh Date: Aug 18, 2009 11:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

see
my post here

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Poster: skies Date: Aug 18, 2009 12:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: FTP read-access is going away

Hi,Tracy pooh , your name is such a blast!!!